Final Oil thread to endthem all.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Here is the deal: I?m so sick of the ?which oil is best? threads that I?m going to take the time out of my 60-80hr work week to do some testing and put an end to this. I seriously hope that after this people will waist a lot less space on SF with dumb oil Q?s and that SF will start some new ante oil thread policy to punish all the none searchers posting about ?which oil do you run?. For thaws of you who do not know my work, go search for the SSautocrome manifold thread I started and you will get some idea of how serious I am about my testing.

I will be buying the first 6 qts of oil my self (I?m not maid of money) and taking care of all the equipment. If there is a different brand/type of oil that you would like to see in this test, go out, buy a qt, PM me for an address and mail it to me (or donate to my paypal and I can pick it up), I?m dead serious, I will test up to 30 brands/types. In particular, it is hard to get royal purple or Mobil 1 15w50 around here (also blood, I here some one is using it, well bring it on {JK}, but I will test it) and I would love to add both to the list if anyone wants to get a qt for the exp. As a side note, If you are willing, run your oil for 2500 miles, change it, fill up a bottle (clean it before packing it and rap duck tape around the cap to help seal it) and mail it, I will test used oil as well for durability (engines running properly, known and marked oil brand/type and try to keep the miles as close to 2500 as possible for consistency).

This is the best compromise I could come up with to provide a selection of weights and types within my budget.

I will be testing the fallowing properties:
-Hot and Cold viscosity comparisons.
-Hot and Cold coating (staying on your parts over night so there is some there in the morning at start up)
-Hot and Cold slipperiness (actual lubrication).
-Weight per unit volume.
-Wetability (how well it flows over a surface and into cracks).
-Water rejection.


We have set procedures for all of the above tests that will be strictly adhered to in order to maximize consistency and repeatability. If you can think of any other test I should perform, post it and how it may be done and I will add it to the list (within reason)

Ok I?m back from my trip (so cool that some times my job coincides with my SF stuff, this trip was totally not planed for research but was an actual pipe system check). I went to a maker of what is called Molyvan 855 (hope I spelled it right) which is supposedly the actual lubricant in automotive synthetic oils, needless to say, having seen how they make it, there way overcharging us. In it?s pure form Molyvan 855 is very slick but not really hi-temp or anti-gunk friendly (we baked some on a ladder in the sun by accident).

I have said it once and I will say it agene, if you want it tested, PM me for my address to drop it in the mail, or offer to Paypal for it (assuming it is available in my aria). Also, we have some one sending amsoil, I would still like to get royal purple (not available in my aria). I can do the truck oils as well if you want.

I can do gear oils at a later date if there is an interest, but I will not be testing auto trany fluid (really have no interest in auto tranys, sorry).

We have decided to get a little more wild and sophisticated with our tests than originally thought, so expect about one test per day stating two days after I get back from my sisters wedding (gives me the first day to run the first test). We are aware of the oil forum and of other articles and such but aren?t really happy with the information that is there, so we are shooting to provide not numbers (we will have some) but rather direct comparison of brand X is more/better/less than brad Y.

A special Thanks to all who are helping out with oil or whatever ells, keep it comeing.

We still need used oil for post comparisons (would be thrilled to see that Mobil 1 at 15k). We require, brand weight, filter type and miles run if you want to send a sample (it only takes like ? a qt.).

Weight and water rejection data:

Weight is expressed as g/ml and was taken just as a basis on which to do calculations in later experiments. We obtained weigh by weighing a 10ml sample then dividing by 10 (giving us weight per ml).

Syntec 10w40 .8g/ml
Syntec blend 10w40 .8g/ml
GTX 10w40 1g/ml
GTX 20w50 1g/ml
VR1 20w50 .8g/ml
Synpower 20w50 .7g/ml
Durablend 10w40 .9g/ml
Mobil 1 10w30 .9g/ml
Mobil 1 5w30 .8g/ml
Lucas (by it?s self) 1.3g/ml


For water resistance, we added 5ml of MA tap water to 10ml of oil and swished it around for 60sec to agitated as best as possible. Then we let the samples settle for 15min and checked to see if the oil layer had completely separated from the water layer.

To our surprise many oils separated but left the water at the bottom in a sticky foam of bubbles that did not simply pore out of the beakers. These oils are listed as having foam. Other than that we looked for our distinctive line at on near the 5ml mark on the beaker.

From best to worst:

Lucas: The water got thick but there was a clean differentiation at exactly 5ml.
Syntec 10w40: Outstanding, negligible foaming and clean separation at 5ml
Syntec blend 10w40: Good separation 50% water sample foaming.
Mobil 1 10w30: Good separation, 60% water sample foaming.
Mobil 1 5w30: Good separation, 65% water sample foaming.
GTX 10w40: Good separation, 75% water sample foaming.
GTX 20w50: Good separation, 75% water sample foaming.
VR1 20w50: Moderate separation, 60% water sample foaming.
Synpower 20w50: Moderate separation. 70% water sample foaming.
Durablend 10w40: Acceptable separation with 85%-90% foaming.

Having done this little experiment I think if I ever got noticeable water in my oil for any resin what so ever, I would probably do a major lubrication system flush to get this sticky foam out? It was a bit of a shock just how much the foam would not mix back in and how well it adhered to the plastic beakers. Inside an engine it would be enough to cause brakes in the oil delivery to important parts.

More data will be coming tonight.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Tonight’s data…

I just put the first 5 oils into dwell on my 24hr part adhesion test to see which oil stays on your parts over night the best, so expect thaws results Wednesday night (probably late, I promised to take my wife to a movie to make up for all the oil samples in portion cups in her freezer).

I got all the Lucas mixed samples (I’ll try to get the walmart oil in that batch) set up for tomorrow evening when I’m going to do the viscosity comparisons and wetting tests on thaws. I may even get wetting test and weights on all of them as well.

I started the specific heat tests tonight, though I have not crunched the numbers to get the actual specific heat I will be posting the raw data (these tests take 25 min each so they eat up a lot of the time I have set aside to do this for you guys). Water (distilled) was run as a base line, then each sample, I ran a synthetic, a blend and a conventional tonight just to get a cross section of general data and was really surprised how close the oils where to each other. On a side note when they came out of the freezer for this test they where all pretty thick but the synthetic did seem a little better than the others for staying thin enough to be a good winter choice, that data is coming soon as well.

Temps where taken in 5 min intervals, in a room kept at 72.6F, each one was 40ml in a brand new plastic beaker (man I go threw a lot of lab ware at home) and the weights per ml are listed in an earlier post.

Water: 46.9F, 52.3F, 55.4F, 57.3F, 59.1F
Syntech 10w40: 17.4F, 22.6F, 33.4F, 42.6F, 49.1F, 53.7F
Syntech Blend 10w40: 17.9F, 24.0F, 33.2F, 41.3F, 47.4F, 52.1F
GTX 10w40: 21.2F, 28.9F, 38.8F, 46.5F, 51.8F, 56.2F

Stay tuned for more data and testing! I’m working as hard/fast as I reasonably can but this one will take some time.

I also just got a Carbon Fiber autometer boost gauge I will need to play around with (I’m going to use some lab grad meters to test its accuracy just for kicks.

Man for some resin SF is being sort of odd and slow the last couple of days… how odd… They need more bandwidth or to find out what/who is eating there’s up and fix it… I’m just glad I type on word (because my spelling is really atrocious to spite my vocabulary) or I would dump a lot of this to time out opps.
Sorry I’m tuckered out tonight and I will haft to post some more data in the AM. On the up side “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” was a relatively good movie and my wife forgives me for the oil in the freezer (she is so understanding). On the down side I’m still trying to get an interior for my car and everyone that says ‘on ya I will sell you mine, I can ship it no problem as long as your willing to pay’ than a week later when they have a shipping estimate it’s ‘well shipping it means I haft to do this and that and it’s just a big hassle so you will haft to drive the 850 miles to where I live and pick it up at the same high price I quoted anyways’. I have one guy I’m waiting to here back from and if it’s the same deal I’m going to a dealer, I’m sick of driving around with a trashed interior in my Supra (sorry to vent it has been a trying week, I’m dealing with my least favorite client and burring the candle at the other end for this oil thread plus in the middle fixing my car up for inspection next week). If I haft to go to the dealer for an interior I will haft to put my upcoming suspension analysis on hold for a while.

First over night sticking to the part test is back and what an upset, this is the first test with clear results to favor an oil.

The test was conducted by dipping some washers on a hanger into the oil for 10 sec then suspending them oven night (for 24 hrs) and weighting them to determine how much oil had remained on the parts. Washers originally weight was 10g.

All of the parts still had at least a thin film of oil but only 2 of the first 5 retained a measurable quantity.

Data:

Syntech 10w40 11.5g = 2ml
Syntech blend 10w40 11g = 1ml
GTX 10w40 10g = 0ml
GTX 20w50 10g = 0ml
VR1 20w50 racing 10g = 0ml

Clearly the synthetics are winning this battle, and to me it’s an important one, because oil retained here means oil on my parts when I turn the key in the morning.

I put the second round of these test together last night in lou of post some results and I haft finished a round of cold viscosity and wetabuility test, I will post thaws results tonight (when I finish the round) and the next set of these probably Friday morning. I should also have more spec heat data posted some time tonight.

There will be more, later but here is a start for tonight.

The autometer gauge if anyone is wondering is reasonably accurate, though more accurate at the extremities and more accurate under boost than vacuum. It was spot on about 10psi boost and spot on below 15in/hg

First friction data is in!

We took measurements dry, with a thin oil layer and with a proper oil coating. Everything is listed as a percentage of dry friction to make comparisons more simplistic.

Dry: 100%
Syntech 10w40: Thin 14%, proper was too low to accurately measure.
Syntech blend 10w40: thin 48%, proper 14%
GTX 10w40: thin 61%, proper 24%
GTX 20w50: thin 57%, proper 35%

That is just a teaser, we will have more to post in the morning when we post the adhesion tests and cold viscosity results.

Here is a little more thermal data.

GTX 20w50:29.3F, 38.4F, 44.7F, 50.9F, 55.2F, 58.6F
Durablend 10w40: 22.4F, 30.9F, 40.4F, 47.6F, 52.7F, 56.4F

There is more on the way, but I’m braking for diner.

This is the guide to understanding the data provided.


The wetting test (Adhesion Vs Cohesion).

All liquids have adhesive (sticking to other stuff) and cohesive (sticking to it’s self) properties. In a strongly cohesive liquid the liquid sticks to it’s self and forms a little droplet (looks like water on a waxed car, but that is a different angle for this principle), which means it dose not wet the surface very well. In a liquid with little cohesiveness or with stronger adhesive properties the fluid spreads out over the surface, wetting it. You want oil that coats the surface of your parts to help protect them so you want an oil that wets the surface well, which is indicated by a larger drop diameter. The other principle that is a work here is called capillary action, which is the natural tendency for a fluid to seep into small voids. The wetter the liquid the better the capillary action and the better the capillary action the better it will get into the small gaps in your motor (which is where you need it) and the better it will stay in throws gaps over night.

Viscosity test.

This test is pretty strait forward, the thinner the liquid the faster it will descend down the incline, the thicker the longer it will take. The resin this test is important is that the viscosity on the side of the bottle is not always the true viscosity of the liquid. The viscosity on the bottle is really a grade, which is a rating of how well it protects your motor (higher the second number the better it protects, the lower the first the better it flows). In synthetic oils the numbers on the bottle tend to be what the conventional equivalent would be, but the synthetic may flow better and be a better friction reducer than the same numbered conventional simply because the synthetic may have a lower true viscosity. The tricky part being that you do not want to thin an oil or it will run off your parts to quickly, but too thick and it hurts efficiency and is hard for the pump to suck up. Now the real motive of this test is not revealed until you see the cold and hot results, the oil that retains it’s viscosity the best from cold to hot will perform the best all around and an oil that stays fluid in the cold will be much better protection for your car when starting in the winter. Generally oil gets thinner as heated and thicker as cooled, but some viscosity modifying components are added to help maintain viscosity throughout the tempter band.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Weight:

We weighed the oil so we could do calculations later on, we posted it because we fingered some one may like to see it. Besides if your one of thaws super light weight car freaks, using oil at .8g/ml instead of 1g/ml could save you a bit of weight we suppose…

Water resistance test.

Water dose get into our oil, weather we like it or not it will happen. What you should be concerned about it that when that water gets into your oil it dissolves some of the additives and then forms a unpleasantly sticky foam (you have all seen the nasty brown foam on the sea shore, well that is in your motor if there is enough water there). What you want here is oil with the fewest water soluble chemicals, to help prevent that foaming and oil contamination. In the testing, the more foam the worst, the more indistinct the line that separates oil from water the more is dissolving (not just making foam but robbing your oil of it’s additives). So you want less foam and a more distinct separation. And no oil is not a good way to make bath bubbles…

The True Adhesion test.

We put oil on washers and hung them up for 24hr at a time without disturbing them to determine how much oil would stick to the washers. The more sticks to the washers the better the protective layer in your engine will be and the more it will retain on the parts from the time you shut the car off till you turn it back on, so it’s ready for start up and protected. Now all the oils left at least a film, what we where looking for was substantial adhesion (more than 1/2ml on the parts) which means much better engine protection.

Specific heat tests.

We checked how quickly any given sample warms up in a controlled environment, the faster it warms up the less energy is needed to raise the tempter each degree. The idea here is that oil that has a high specific heat (takes longer to heat up) will help your motor to run cooler and will resist thermal breakdown better (because it takes more effort to heat it). To compare properly, fined a similar starting point in two brands and look at which one had a grater change in tempter over that time slot. Comparing one oil starting at 18F and the other starting at 25F directly is poor because there is a variance in the rate at which heat is transferred based on how far from the room tempter the sample is (the farther from room temp the faster heat flows).

Friction test.

We will be re running all of the friction data, we are switching to a heavier sled so we can get accurate numbers for the synthetic oils (none of them had enough friction to be measurable with our current sled). The way you do this is to pull a object (in our case a steel block we call the sled) across a surface (a steel plate) with a scale and measure how much force it takes to first brake the block into movement (static friction) and then to keep it traveling at a constant rate (sliding friction). Static friction is always higher than sliding and we are not really interested in static as the only time it would mater in an engine is at the instant the rotating assembly is engaged by the starter. So we are testing only the sliding friction (we may get some static numbers just for grins). The better the oil the more it will reduce the friction (and hence the engine ware), so the lower percentages as we list them (we are showing % of dry friction) the better. Do keep in mined that some of the friction in the oil is a result of the viscosity of the oil.
We do this test in two parts as well, one with a thin layer (just wetting the sled) and one with a thick or ‘proper’ layer (wetting the sled and surface). The thin layer represents a low oil or oil starved condition and the ‘proper’ layer represents the normal operating condition.



As far as why this is taking so long…

Each individual test is complicated and takes from 5 min to 35 min to perform a single repetition; some also have dwell times of up to 24hr. Now we perform many tests repeatedly to establish that we are getting proper and consistent results. Beyond that, we is really me performing the tests and some of my car club buddies righting down results and complaining about getting sticky oily hands (like mine). Though bless my friends, there good for lafs as one of them poured Mobil 1 on some popcorn the other night by accident (there is a lot of lab ware in my home we use as normal dishes, including beakers that we microwave butter in for popcorn). Also they where kind enough to supply me with a qt each of Mobil 1 15w50, Mobil 1 0w40 and Syntec 5w50 (they order on line and use them in a 70’s 911, Bens E190 turbo and a late 80’s Testarossa respectively, they ordered extras just for me/us {all right they wanted in on the results to}). So a special thanks to my Evil Turbo Penguins car club members today for 3 extra oils to add to the tests. Also a special thanks to my wife for not killing me when she discovered a freezer full of oil and oil in a popcorn bowl.

More results are on the way folks.


Actually about 10 people asked, so I figured it would be best if I put that in, for the good of the community.

Anyways big load of data tonight.

Specific heats:
Mobil 1 10w30: 17.7F, 22.4F, 33.9F, 42.2F, 48.5F, 53.0F
Synpower 20w50: 17.7F, 22.6F, 31.6F, 39.7F, 47.6F, 52.1F
Mobil 1 5w30: 16.0F, 21.9F, 30.2F, 39.2F, 47.3F, 53.6F
VR1 20w50: 18.1F, 24.9F, 33.0F, 41.1F, 48.0F, 54.5F
We took Lucas out of the fridge and it was like a Jello cup, so we flipped it over and just laughed at it for a while. It took it almost 3 minuets to even threaten to drip out of the upside down cup which means super good heat transfer and specific heat, but it totally failed the viscosity test. What good is oil if it will not flow?

Viscosity tests:

Room temp:
Mobil 1 15w50: 39sec
Mobil 1 0w40: 30 sec.
Syntec 5w50: 68sec.

Cold (17F): Now this is where it gets strange and you start to understand why synthetic is so good.
Syntec 10w40: 27sec
Syntec 5w50: 25 sec
Mobil 1 15w50: 63 sec.
Mobil 1 0w40: 23 sec.
Mobil 1 5w30: 24 sec.
Mobil 1 10w30: 27 sec.
Syntec Blend 10w40: 34 sec.
GTX 10w40: 40 sec.
GTX 20w50: 68 sec.
Durablend 10w40: 42 sec.
VR1 20w50: 69 sec.
Synpower 20w50: 81sec.
Lucas had to be spooned from the container and took over 5 min to travel the 2” down the ramp.

What you are seeing above is the fact that oil companies are making a thin oil and an additive that thickens it as it heats up. You can clearly see however that the synthetics are the king when it comes to cold protection. Actually MolyVan 855 (the lubricant in the synthetic oils) is like water by it’s self. They used to use paraffin (wax) in some conventional oils to improve viscosity but it would cause problems at high heat. Keep in mined with the above data that below a cretin point the oil will begin to thicken agene (meaning if you live in Mi or new England you should really be buying the synthetic). That point appears to be some place around 0F (we messed around a little with 3 samples and a deep freezer).

That is a lot of data even though it looks short. Hope it holds you till tomorrow night. Tomorrow night we should have some of the oils mixed with Lucas and the Walmart oil going on as well.

Oh as a side note: Mobil 1 5w30 tastes discussing according to my friends.

If I have said it once I have said it 100 times, I have spent more than my max budget on this set of testing already and I DO NOT have a local source for Redline, Royal Purple or Amsoil (my local Toyota dealer caries Castrol and whatever the Toyota oil is). If you wanted tested PM me for an address and drop the sucker in the mail. Sorry to be abrasive, I feel like a parrot some times and it’s not just you dziuggy, I have gotten so many PM’s about how I ‘should be able to get it at the corner store that it is ridiculous. Believe me, I have looked.

Ok back to biss.

We have some data about oils containing the prescribed 30% Lucas by volume. The data I have right now is at room temp and I put the stuff in the Freezer over night so I could gather the cold data later today. We also have some Wallmart oil data.

Over night stick to the parts test:

Syntec 5w50: 11g = 1ml
Mobil 1 0w40: 10.5g = .5ml
Mobil 1 15w50: 10.5g = .5ml
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 10.5g = .33ml

[GrandLordKhorne]

GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 11g = 1ml

Viscosity tests:

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 43sec
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 53sec
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 100sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 28sec
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 142sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 106sec
Syntec blend 10w40 + Lucas: 75sec

Wetness tests:

Mobil 1 0w40: 12mm
Mobil 1 15w50: 11mm
Syntec 5w50: 12mm
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 10mm
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 8mm
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 10mm
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 10mm
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 9mm
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 10mm
Syntec blend 10w40 + Lucas: 11mm

I will try to have more data tonight (cold data).

I will be running some tests at 180F, which is around where your oil should be. Anything above 210F in oil temp is inadvisable and by the time you hit 250F in oil your seriously damaging your motor. Synthetics last into higher ranges than conventional which I have never had the luck of exceeding (former Porsche owner, we know all about burning your oil out at the track, air/oil cooled after all). As far as your oil braking down at temp Vs what viscosity it is. There is more to it than just temp/viscosity, it also hast a lot to do with, contamination, layer thickness and oil age as well as brand (meaning additive package). The oven I have access to at work dose not work well above 200F so I will not be able to punch as high as 200C by which time I do assure you you’re conventional oils would be dead and close to there flash points (all but the best synthetics, I know for a fact that Mobil 1 will work to 400F as an oil). The talk about viscosity breakdown at high temps is almost a dead subject if you run a synthetic, the bigger worry being contamination causing breakdown over the service interval which is why we will be testing the used oils as well. I would throw some in a pot and see how hot I could get it before it has a viscosity death but #1 my wife would kill me (she has very nice pots) and #2 it would be a might dangerous to heat oil like that without more control than I have readily available.

If you are looking to finger out what weight to run, it is really more trial and error than anything if you don’t have a real lab, because it is different for each car/setup/brand of oil. The only way (without a lab) to single out what weight to run is to run a specific weight and see if it works (meaning no metal shavings), then if it dose go lighter and try that. Running to heavy will rob a little HP. I do know that I push my Mk III pretty hard on a regular basis and I run Syntec 10w40, I get no metal shavings in my filters (I cut them open after an oil change to check for just such an occurrence).

Anyways data for the night.

Specific heats for oils mixed with Lucas:

VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 9.6F, 24.4F, 38.6F, 46.2F, 51.8F
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 22.4F, 34.1F, 41.5F, 48.5F, 54.8F
GTX 20w50 +Lucas: 30.3F, 40.6F, 48.3F, 53.6F, 57.3F
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 21.5F, 32.1F, 39.7F, 52.1F, 58.2F
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 14.3F, 34.8F, 46.9F, 54.1F, 58.6F
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 16.1F, 31.6F, 48.9F, 55.5F, 58.2F

Cold times down the ramp.

VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 342sec
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 159sec
GTX 20w50 +Lucas: 197sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 51sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 47sec
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 167sec

I’m going to haft to say after weighting for all that Lucas mixed oil to slide the 2” down that ramp that I will haft to discount that product as a usable additive for vehicles being started at low temps. Most oils with the Lucas added at low temps just turn into a honey consistence that is a bit to thick to call appropriate for an engine lubricant.

More to come tomorrow, hot tests to start coming in probably Wednesday.

There was a question if I could compile all the data onto one form that could be down loaded. I will make an excel sheet available for download with the full data set at the completion of this testing.

Little more thermal data.

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 10.2F, 18.6F, 31.4F, 41.1F, 51.5F
Mobil 1 0w40: 14.7F, 21.3F, 32.0F, 41.1F, 47.6F
Mobil 1 15w50: 13.6F, 18.8F, 27.6F, 36.8F, 44.6F
Syntec 5w50: 14.5F, 19.0F, 29.6F, 38.8F, 45.8F

You can plainly see that the heavier synthetics are much better thermally than most anything ells around.

I have taken the day off of work to do some hot tests (your welcome) but I need to swap out my exhaust really quick so I can go pass my smog tomorrow. Expect data around 6pm-7pm tonight.

I had ulterior motives for taking a day off of work so don’t worry and they won’t fire me, I’m the only guy in New England that caries the sort of NDT certs I have, I’m way to valuable and well underpaid. But being home all day did let me get a lot of testing done (not just oil but for other up coming threads), swapped out my exhausts (going to dyno stock exhaust then swap up to a DP, then DP+cat, then full exhaust, will be posting all sheets and econ, sound…ext, data in about 2 months.)and I finished the new Harry Potter book.

I would like to send a super special thanks and a +1 to audioman81 from whom I just received a 36pk of 2” industrial grade chip brushes that oddly enough look like 2 used oil sample (I love the boxes you get when people mail you stuff), and I salute his impeccable packing abilities (not one drop spilled and the bottles where not sticky or nasty).

The used oil is as follows:

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 2002 chevy Malibu with 50K on it, 2800 on the oil, mostly hwy driven

Syntec Blend 10w30: Run in an 88 turbo, 91K miles with stock PSI and stock HG. Put in, in Feb 05, 1800 miles of city driving.


So here is the data for tonight.

Cold viscosity:

Walmart 10w30: 32sec
Used Walmart 10w30: 26sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 68sec

Room temp viscosities:

Walmart 10w30: 103sec
Used Walmart 10w30: 62sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 50sec

Hot viscosities:

A word on hot viscosities first. Expect to see higher times with conventional oils as they thicken to adhere with heat and that is how they protect. With synthetics they thin out in some cases but adhere to the part better to create a protective layer. The property of how well the oil deposits it’s self as it makes these hot passes is not something we can log in a quantitative form. However most samples will adhere well enough that when the ‘drop’ reaches the ‘finish line’ it is not a drop any more (left it’s body behind). Any oil not showing this effect in these hot test will be noted as having poor hot adhesion, otherwise, look for fast times in the synthetics and slow times in the conventional and blends. The resin you get better fuel econ with a synthetic is because it dose not haft to get thick to adhere and protect and can flow like hot butter reducing drag on the pump and parts.

GTX 10w40: 103sec
Syntec blend 10w40: 165sec
Syntec 10w40: 25sec
Syntec 5w50: 46sec
Mobil 1 15w50: 18sec
Mobil 1 0w40: 12sec

[GrandLordKhorne]

Friction tests:

All numbers are in Newtons. Less is better, particularly in the hot segment. We where going to list static numbers in addition to sliding and also thin vs thick layers but we found very consistently that static was about 33% higher and thin (wet but inadequate) was about 100% higher.

Totally Dry: 6N sliding
GTX 10w40: room: 2N, Hot: 1.5N
Syntec blend 10w40: room 1.75N, hot 1N
Syntec 10w40: room 1N, hot .8N
Syntec 5w50: room 1.5N, Hot 1N
Mobil 1 15w50: room 1.5N, hot 1N
Mobil 1 0w40: room 1.5N, hot 1.25N


More to post in the morning.


Sorry guys no data tonight, I have bad news. I will tell a funny true story afterwards to lighten the mood though.

The Bad news.

I was doing some testing this morning when I spilled a little oil on the heating coil of the drying kiln I’m using for hot testing, anyways it had a really interesting reaction and caught fire to one of my note books with this mornings data, so the data was lost and I will haft to repeat the tests (no biggie). Then when cleaning up I pulled a nether dumb move and spilled hot oil on my chary wood coffee table.

The fire was not a big deal I put it out with my hand (I’m fine my hand just smells funny) it was so small, just enough to destroy the top 4 pages of my note pad. The Kiln is fine, no big deal there either. My coffee table is all cleaned up as well, no harm done. I’m feeling that today is a super klutzy day so I will resume testing tomorrow (after changing my oil to get a used Syntec 10w40 sample).

The Funny story.

I was going to post this in the off topic section but I will put it here because the MkIII people are much more deserving and it will lift spirits after the aforementioned bad news.

My wife who is one of the super hot females, that work in a Victoria’s Secret in the local mall. The other day we where discussing a study that a friend of mine from MIT was doing about vegetarians and brain development, the study confirms that vegetarians (none meat eaters) have slower developing minds, lower average IQ and higher rates of mental retardation (it’s a study of kids raised as vegetarians and of people who become vegetarians in there teens). The study it’s self is a continuation of one done earlier relating to middle-aged vegetarians developing more handicaps and loosing motor skills more rapidly. Any ways, I was picking up my wife from work to go to dinner and we where headed out to the car. Walking with us was one of my wife’s co-workers (yes the co-worker was a blond), who just so happens to be a vegetarian since her early teens. We approached my wife’s white 92 Miata from the rear (my Supra was at home with the interior pulled out to fix a radio problem, don’t ask) and her co-worker exclaims “Wow, I didn’t know you had a Viper! I’ve never seen a white one.” to which I have all to do not to laugh. So my wife tells her it’s a Miata but she has never heard of such a car. She then asks where my ‘FC’ was (she watches too much Initial D with her boyfriend) and I tell her it’s a Toyota Supra and it’s at home. Well we get around the front of the Miata to show here it is a Mazda which for some resin amazes her, then ten seconds later she starts talking about how bad she wants a R32-Sileighty which she thinks is made by Toyota and will out run her boyfriends Vette… This is a 100% true story to spite the fact that my twitch has gotten more violent because of it and the morel hear is for heavens sake eat your meat!! By the way there was a Viper GTC parked 3 cars over from my wife’s itty bitty little Miata, when I saw it I laughed uncontrollably for about 5 min after what had just happened.

I’m dead serious about the study including vegetarians. They have found that protein from meat (in proper doses, you don’t haft to be a carnivore) helps prevent some diseases/disorders commonly associated with the elderly (published in a medical journal, I would haft to ask him which one). The follow up study being preformed seems to support the fact that animal proteins are highly important to nervous system development. My friend also pointed out that even though some vegetable products (like beans and nuts) have protein in them; the human body is not very efficient at extracting these proteins. He said even when steps are taken to insure proper protein intake in vegetarians they are still at higher risk than people that consume animal based products (other chemicals invalved too).

The guy is a PHD in biochemistry by the way. He said that the best root to healthy life style is to fallow the food pyramid and eat things in proper proportions, citing that everything in the pyramid is important in some manner, including the fats at the top. There talking about changing the pyramid because they want to stress grains more as people in general do not eat enough of them.

Both he and I agree though, that we respect people who do not eat meat because they do not enjoy the taste (we have a friend, a masters in marine biology, who is that way, but she eats other animal products) and people that are near vegetarians like my mother who steers away from most animal products because the hormones in the products significantly increase her chances of having a cancer relapse. We fined people who don’t eat animal products because they think it’s healthy not to or they think it’s cruel to be a little laughable (bad logic). The human body was designed to be an Omnivore and we should eat as such to meet our bodies needs.

I met the guy while I was taking part in a study on the effects of fast driving and endorphin release in the body leading to increased sex drive (I’m Physics and Mech Eng, not a bio freak, but any excuse to drive at the limit and I’m friends with the guy that ran the study). At the time he was doing a study that concluded that men who have sex (masturbation too, but real sex is more effective) on a regular basis (1 to 2 times a week min) are significantly less likely to get cretin types of cancers (higher blood flow to genitals increase there health) and females who have proper orgasms weekly are less likely to suffer reproductive dysfunctions (similar resins). Well a professor introduced him to our research team and made the joke we should combine the studies to say that men who drive faster are horny and more likely to please there significant others, which in turn reduces there risks of cancer and her risks of reproductive problems and probably leads to happier marriages. Well it has never gotten me out of a speeding ticket.

See you can learn lots of cool stuff from an oil thread. However I will be back on topic tonight.

As much as anyone may say that higher education kicks anything about, do consider how much teasing the average ultra nerd overlord such as my self had to suffer threw high school and the younger years to reach our venerable level of intellect (this is why most genius is in fact Evil and explains my user name). Also, experiments such as previously noted to spite sounding fun do tend to get a little tedious as they draw on (repetitive tasks). Even the oil experiments are a bit of a put off on some evenings when I could be doing other things (but the data and the community are worth it).

New addition for this evening:

Used Syntec 10w40: taken from a 1989 Supra Turbo, bone stock save an SSQV and oil temp gauge. The oil was run for 3123 miles with a Mobil 1 filter, 87% on the highway averaging 73mph and 13% city averaging 22mph. The oil was in the car for 33 days over which my average gas mileage was 23.2mpg. The car has 116123 miles on the chassis and 18243 on the motor as of the oil change. Oil pressure ranged from 16 to 42 psi and oil temp was averaged at 178F.

A note on the used oils, you should still compare in all the normal ways but also consider how close the specks are to un-used samples to get an idea of how much deterioration has occurred. Also note the mileage and how the oil was driven as an indicator. An oil with 3000 miles on it should be more beat down than one with 1500.

Viscosities:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 28sec.
Used Syntec 10w40: Hot 30sec, room 68sec, cold 40sec
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 25sec
VR1 20w50: Hot 113sec

Friction levels:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 2N, room 2.25N, cold 2.75
Used Syntec 10w40: Hot 1.2N, room 1.75N, cold 2N
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 1.2N, room 1.5N, cold 1.9N
VR1 20w50: Hot 3N, room 4N, cold 4.5N

If anyone is living in a cold climate and using VR1 oil in your car, I would stop now…

Specific heat:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 15.2F, 20.6F, 29.6F, 38.3F, 44.9F

Keep in mined that with the used oils changes in heat could go either way as some contaminants and breakdown may improve this property while others might hurt it.

More data will be coming tomorrow.

[asg14]

I'm now going to call you, Master Khorne!   You kick a$$!

[GrandLordKhorne]

When all is said and done, I will post a full list data in a chart for easy reference. What concerns me about the tests is that most of the wear and tare on a motor is during the first 3-5 min of operation before it warms up. After a motor is warm the amount of wear and tear is actually pretty small…

When I run 5w30 in the winter I will push as much as 10-12psi without worrying… I push up to 20psi in the summer on 10w40 but I use a synthetic (I run pretty hard at times too)… I sort of question the need for something as thick as 20w50 in a 7M at any time, it strikes me as a little overkill. Especially when most of the racing teams I have been in contact with are running much lighter oils, generally between 20w40 and 15w35. The only place I have found that 20w50 is of real advantage is in diesels and air/oil cooled motors.

I have yet to fined any indication that my Syntec 10w40 so I have not gone thicker. I got some very small metal partials with 5w30 when I went over 15psi.

Anyways, the pic is Lucas with GTX20w50 frosh out of the freezer, it’s good for a laugh. This is why I don’t suggest Lucas in the cold…

Had a couple of Q’s about cold testing… So here are some answers: the freezer is kept at about -6F (not a normal freezer) but we let the samples warm up to 15F-18F and do all testing in that temp range… All the oils are supper thick coming out of the freezer, however the ones where lucas is mixed with a conventional oil are the only ones that are like jello (until about 8F-10F at least)…

Here is a little data for this evening. I will be getting back into the swing of things on Monday and I will have much more data tomorrow night (I have been a little preoccupied).

Specific heats:

Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 28.7F, 33.8F, 40.6F, 46.7F, 51.4F
Used Syntec 10w40: 16.5F, 20.8F, 30.5F, 39.3F, 46.5F

Special thanks to an Unknown individual who sent a qt of 10w40 redline synthetic and ? qt of 20w50 redline synthetic. There was no readable name (skuffed up)on the package but speak up for your +1 and thanks for kicking in the oil. It was in about 6 UPS bags in a USPS box...

We are testing the Petroleum based Lucas, it’s very hard to fined the synthetic one around here. I have only seen the synthetic in the not so local Napa and only in little containers, I would haft to buy a couple to do the testing.

For the price I would haft to agree that the Walmart 10w30 synthetic is surviving pretty well, but I would like to point out the used sample dose not have all that many miles on it for a synthetic oil in a none boosted car and is showing a lot more deterioration than the other used samples at the moment. I will reserve judgment on a hole until the end and even then it’s only an opinion.

Highly Organized… I’ll take that as a compliment though you would laugh if you looked around my apartment at the heaps of parts and stacks of books topped with odd collections of the strangest things (I collect Warhammer armies, human bones and car models). My friends actually say I’m a little anile and very eccentric, but then eccentricity is supposed to be a mark of quality (I suppose, my wife just thinks I’m nuts though). Actually my attention to detail comes from years of education in the sciences and my parents raising me that way. It’s just like the fact that I’m willing to do all of this for a group of people that I have never met save there writings here on SF, you must admit that dose seam a bit odd (I could just have tested what I was interested in and never told a sole). But I do it because I love it (the experiments) and because I want to see the community grow and develop in new/good ways.

I do have a plan, which is to finish around the end of this week (and without getting any more over budget on this project)… I will however be willing to continue the testing if there is significant interest in farther research and if there are people willing to contribute to the cause (I’m running low on disposable volumetric pipettes and 50ml plastic beakers). I would also haft to say that I have other testing I would like to move on to near the end of Aug (Exhaust and maybe suspension), so any farther testing will be on a scaled back time table (meaning fewer tests per night). I would however love to see expanded results (More Used Oil Samples, particularly of ones we have tested new).

Tonight’s data:

Water rejection data:

Mobil 1 15w50: Outstanding, 60% foam
Mobil 1 0w40: Outstanding, 40% foam
Syntec 5w50: Outstanding, 20% foam
Walmart 10w30: Good, 55% foam
Used Syntec 10w40: Outstanding, 30% foam
Used Walmart 10w30: OK, 70% foam
Used Syntec Blend 10w40: Good, 70% foam.

Cold Friction Numbers:

Mobil 1, 10w30 + Lucas: 1.75N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 2N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 2.5N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 3.4N
Pure Lucas: 9N (if you are running pure Lucas stop now and change to regular oil).
Syntec 10w40: 1N
Syntec Blend 10w40: 1.5
GTX 10w40: 2N
GTX 20w50: 2.25N

There will be some dripping over night test data in the morning.

Ha, data in before 9pm how about that!

Data from over nigh adhesion testing (dripping test):

Mobil 1 5w30: 1ml
Synpower 20w50: .5ml
Walmart 10w30: 0ml
Used Walmart 10w30: 0ml
Used Syntec 10w40: 1.5ml

I’m hoping to get a little data from the Redline products for this evening. I will try to post it by around 9pm.

On the subject of coolants, this should really be a new thread, but I’m going to decline on testing them. My resin being that there are two types of coolant; Ethylene Glycol (the green stuff) and ‘Dexcool’. Ethylene Glycol is only mad in 2 factories in the world last I checked and in and of it’s self is durable enough to work well without all the additives that the companies pore in them (what I’m saying is there is little if any real difference in brands here). ‘Dexcool’ (the red/orange stuff) is simply a slightly different chemical which is nicer to your Al parts than Ethylene Glycol, but other than being nicer to Al it has only a slight efficiency advantage and is otherwise indistinguishable in hot performance.

Actually this may be a shock to some of you but if you flip over your coolant bottle and read the back, in many cases (including the fancy brands) it recommends less coolant to water in warmer climates (because water transfers heat better than coolant). ‘Coolant’ is really there to lubricate the water pump and prevent freezing.

I know from personal experience that water is perfectly capable of cooling an engine even with a 180F T stat. So you are not going to see a real advantage to fancy coolant additives because of the limiting factor of you thermostat (if it cools below a certain temp the valve closes and allows the fluid to warm up). The important thing with coolant is to have a proper mix for your winter climate (to prevent freezing), keep things lubed and to prevent corrosion. If you are using an additive to keep your motor in the right range, stop and fined the real cause of your heat problems.

Also, if any of you are running without a T-stat or a restrictor, when your engine freezes up, come see me and I will slap you on the back of the head with a real pine 2x4 free of charge. This agene should be a new thread but; flow rates that exceed cretin velocities cause thermodynamic efficiency problems in your motor and to spite your gauge reading cold, you are over cooling some parts and allowing hot spots in others. I have engine data to back this up, if you are wondering. Thermostats and restrictors where invented for a resin and there is a sweet operating temperature for your motor that I will guarantee is readable on the gauge and grater than zero!

All of that having been said, if I did not know so much about chemistry, thermodynamics and coolant it would be an interesting test to perform.

Sorry but only a little data tonight, we had an X-ray machine brake down at work and I got home late as a result.

Specific heats:

Redline 10w40: 13.2F, 21.3F, 31.6F, 40.4F, 47.3F
Redline 20w50: 25.5F, 31.4F, 39.3F, 45.6F, 51.0F

There will be more tomorrow

[GrandLordKhorne]

Just to keep everyone abreast of things. The tests are getting reasonably close to finished, so I’m going to make a push for the end of the week. If I don’t make the end of the week, I will shoot for Wednesday of next week (I haft to work all weekend). When this is done I will start my tests on the Titan Down Pipe, Random Tech Cat and Tanabe Super Hyper Medallion exhaust (all 3 are on order threw MVP and should be showing up by the end of the month I hope). Expect to see data on the exhaust about mid September and to include sound (dB), performance (HP), Fuel econ and weld analysis data. I have given up on an interior for this year, but I’m also going to postpone my suspension tests until probably spring (I’m a little put off by not getting a descent interior so I’m going to slow my project down until the setback depression wares off and then I will be more focused anyways).

If you live/are in or near MA and are willing, I’m looking to get some noise level (Sound in dB) data on cars with different mod levels and exhaust systems. The tests take about 1 hr and around 15 to 25 miles of driving to complete. I would not mined getting some MkIV or MkII data as well if anyone has one. PM me if your interested.

On another side note, I have loads of operating data on my MkIII, including, pressures, temps, sound levels, fuel econ, oil consumption…ext and I was wondering if you guys/girls would be interested in seeing it published in a thread? As sort of a reference. It starts will an almost completely stock vehicle (only has an SSQV) and would continue threw any mods I do.

Tonight’s Oil data:

Wetness tests:

Used Syntec 10w40: 13mm
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 11mm
Used Walmart 10w30: 13mm
Redline 10w40: 12mm
Redline 20w50: 12mm

Water rejection:

Syntec 10w40 w/ Lucas: outstanding, 75%
Syntec Blend 10w40 w/ Lucas: Good, 60%
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: Good, 50%
GTX 20w50 w/Lucas: Good, 50%
Mobil 1 10w30 w/ Lucas: Outstanding, 65%
VR1 20w50 w/ Lucas: Good, 30%
Redline 10w40: Outstanding, 20%
Redline 20w50: Outstanding, 20%

I may have some coating data in the morning.

Data for tonight:

Hot Viscosities:

GTX 20w50: 33sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 28sec
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 173sec
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 63sec
Durablend 10w40: 53sec
Redline 10w40: 19sec

Hot Friction:

GTX 20w50: 1.6N
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 1.9N
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 1.95N
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 1.9N
Durablend 10w40: 1.2N
Redline 10w40: .9N

Room Temp Friction:

GTX 20w50: 1.9N
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 1.8N
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 2.8N
Durablend 10w40: 1.5N
Redline 10w40: 1.2N

Cold Friction:

Durablend 10w40: 2.0N
Redline 10w40: 1.4N
Redline 20w50: 1.8N
Syntec 5w50: 1.2N

Room temp Viscosities:

Redline 10w40: 24sec
Redline 20w50: 95sec

Clod Viscosities:

Redline 10w40: 40sec
Redline 20w50: 97sec

Well that was a tone of work for tonight, but it looks like I might just finish the 47 blinks on my final data sheet over the next 48hr if I push just a little. Hopefully I will be publishing the final results on Monday night with some luck.

Finally over 2000 views… Now that is cool…

I do have some data for tonight, but I will post it tomorrow afternoon in one last data posting. Then I will publish my cleaned up spread sheet on Monday probably (Sunday if you are lucky)… I will also be publishing a conclusion, including my opinions based on working with all this oil…

My boss is forcing me to take tomorrow off because he said ‘Your burning the candle at both ends and in the middle, it’s not good for you, something hast to give’ but what ever, I need the money from work and I get so freaking bored just sitting around the apartment… I’ll be back at my X-ray machine on Sunday at any rate… I suppose I need some new friends with less work related interests (when I get together with friends, we work and then watch a movie when it’s too dark to keep working), so any lazy people in or near MA want to be my friend and try and keep me from working…

When all this is over, if you are local to MA, you are welcome to swing by for a free 1/2qt of oil or a 1gal of Walmart oil (first come first serve, limited quantities). One of these days, I will have time off that corresponds with a meet and I will get to meet all you people and you will see just who the heck I am, that should be interesting…

Alright, drop another post tomorrow after noon, I will shoot for before 3pm but definitely by 6pm considering I’m taking a forced day off tomorrow… I wish I was paid well enough to not haft to be a work-a-holic.

Almost all the data left to give.

Hot Viscosities.

Mobil 1 5w30: 33sec
Mobil 1 10w30: 46sec
Redline 20w50: 133sec
Synpower 20w50: 31sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 250sec
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 124sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 108sec
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 155sec

Hot Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: .6N
Mobil 1 10w30: 1N
Redline 20w50: 1.1N
Synpower 20w50: 1.3N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 1.5N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 1.6N
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 1.8N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 1.8N

Room Temp Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: 1N
Mobil 1 10w30: 1.1N
Redline 20w50: 1.3N
Synpower 20w50: 1.4N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 2N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 1.8N
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 2.2N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 2N

Cold Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: 1.1N

[GrandLordKhorne]

Mobil 1 10w30: 1.2N
Synpower 20w50: 1.5N

Other than that there is only a little staying on the parts over night data to post but I want to get all of that together tomorrow (still 2 samples in dwell) and I will post it when I post the spreadsheet either tomorrow night or Monday night.

Finally done… Below you will fined a file containing the spread sheets with full data as to the performance of different oils. I would be willing to test more/other brands if there is interest and if some one is willing to provide some financial backing for lab ware (I would require about $25 in disposable pipettes and if we exceed more than a couple of more samples about $25 more in disposable beakers). I’m not soliciting, I’m just saying I have spent more than I should have on this already.

An explanation for the spreadsheets:

First of all, the sections with blue text/numbers are used oil samples. The Sections with Red text/numbers are samples with 30% Lucas additive. Units are at the bottoms of the columns and all temps are in F.

Under sheet Data 1:

Wetness: higher numbers are better but anything 10 and over is good.

Viscosity: Numbers in seconds to run down a 45 ramp 2 inches, lower is thinner or better flowing, higher is thicker.

Friction: measured in Newton’s, lower is always better.

Coating: how well it stuck to the parts over night, higher is always better and everything even if it said 0 left at least a film type layer.

Water rejection: self explanatory running from acceptable to outstanding.

% Foam: Less is always better, this represents how much foam was produced and remained after adding water and agitating the samples. This is a percentage of the water that is foamed, not the oil (caused by chemicals in the oil dissolving in the water).

Weight is just that, how much a single ml of the oil would weigh in grams, this is only really useful for doing calculations with heat.

Under the Specific Heats sheet:

First you see the actual temps in F, fallowed by the change in temp from start to finish of the 20min run. Then weight per gram, weight of the total sample used (40ml was used, but it’s important to discuss mass when talking about heat). The final column (T/M) is simply total mass of the sample divided by the change in temp over the total 20min. This last number although not directly useful, is representative of how the oil performs agents it’s competitors, with higher numbers indicating a better ability to carry heat energy. Any thing over 1.0 in the last column is good and keep in mined that I had no way of testing how well an oil transfers heat energy so the comparison is limited and should be cross referenced with the Wetness test from the first page.


As for my opinion on the oils I have tested…

After working with so much oil, this is what I think. I will continue to use Syntec 10w40 as it preformed admirably all around and is not too terribly expensive, but if I did switch to something different, I would step up to Redline 10w40 or do some testing on some Royal Purple and see how that compares. I would not bother running a thicker Xw50 unless my motor was heavily modified, as the 10w40 held up well for the 3000 miles I torched it for this test and is therefore more than sufficiently protective for my motor.

I would tend to stay away from Lucas, though it did help some conventional oils it was not a really satisfying product, particularly for the price. I would however recommend Lucas as an assembly lube when building a motor, for it’s wonderful ability to stick to everything forever and the fact that it would dissolve and be carried away after the initial start up.

The Synthetics did perform better than the conventional in more than just the numeric manner that you see on the data sheets and are well worth the money you spend stepping up to one, especially in cold climates and harsh conditions. I however would probably steer away from the Walmart brand for my Supra, even though it is more than adequate for your beater car.

Redline is notable for having some very good flow characteristics that unfortunately can not be quantitatively captured hear and I was quite impressed with the 10w40 they produce.


I hope that this testing has met your needs for sufficiently demonstrating what types of oils will be best in cretin situations and I thank you for your patients. I will be performing other testing on other products in the time ahead, budget allowing, for the betterment of the community.

I do have a request, please post your thoughts on the testing, what oil you where using, weather you will be changing having read all of this, why or why not you are changing and what you will be changing to if you are. I would fined this type of information interesting if nothing more.

Admin, I beseech you, my intentions where to put a reasonable end to the number of oil threads out there. Come up with some sort of oil thread policy to help prevent so many of the dumb threads we where dealing with before this one and leave free space for better information… My vote would be for a short ban on anyone that starts another oil thread that dose not address some item not discussed here. Every one ells, charge your flamers…

And for heavens sake, some one trade me a 1JZ Supra (I want 1J bad and can’t afford it) or at least sell me a none burgundy interior…

The manufactures can be as pissed as they want. I did not favor any brand in any test and am only providing data, if they think I have wronged them in some way by not making them look good, that is there problem… No product tested completely sucked (they all had there use) and I do not recommend or endorse any brand here…

There is a guide to the data back on page 3 in about the middle… But here is a quickie refresher.

Wetness: 10 or higher is good…

Viscosity: Hot: Conventional should be higher, synthetic lower, Room: lower is better and cold: Lower is way better…

Friction: Lower is always better…

Coating: Higher is always better…

Water rejection: Self explanatory…

% foaming: Lower is always better…

Weight is irrelevant and is only provided should you be math inclined and want to convert to more technical numbers rather than raw data…

On the Specific heat, look at the column on the far right, anything 1.0 or higher is good.

We have received some samples of Amsoil products. In particular, 20w50 racing, 10w40 High performance and 10w40 extended service.

Here are the first test results.

For the temp tests each sample is as fallows.

Racing 20w50: 33.9F temp swing.
HP 10w40: 37.6F temp swing.
XS 10w40: 31.7F temp swing.

The result is that I’m not what one would call impressed by the specific heat capacity of any of the mixes and would not run this oil in an air cooled like my 911… Having said that they are by far the best smelling and most esthetically pleasing oils I have ever seen and have some properties that are intriguing to me. I’m definitely left with the feeling these will do well in other categories and we shell see soon enough.

More oil results.

Room temp vis times: (less is better)

Racing: 60 sec
HP: 41 sec
XS: 29 sec

Cold vis times: (less is better)

Racing: 57 sec

[GrandLordKhorne]

HP: 38 sec
XS: 40 sec

Wetness spot size: (bigger is better)

Racing: 8mm
HP: 11mm
XS: 10mm


I’m starting to like the XS the more I play with it, the HP is good stuff too but I really get the feeling I would not use the racing oil unless it was in a water cooled summer only car. They all stick to parts pretty well from what I can see and the HP wets pretty nicely. I will try to get to the friction tests soon.

There has also been a whisper of talk about testing out a filter from Amsoil and running there oil for 15K miles (checking it often) to see just how it dose.

Water rejection data.

Racing: good 50% foam
HP: Acceptable, 70% foam
XS: Acceptable, 70% foam

Not really impresive results, they looked like coffie with cream after an hr of settling. Not really as good as something like Syntec that had little foam and visibly seprit water arias...

Some more info on Amsoil.

24hr coating tests results are in and Amsoil did well.

Racing: 1ml stayed on coupon.
HP: 2ml stayed on coupon.
XS: 1.5ml stayed on coupon.

This is a really good result, what it means is that when you go to start your car in the morning, most parts will still have a good coating of oil rather than just a sort of oily film. And keep in mined, the average of all the oils previously tested was .75ml, only 4 other samples exceeded 1ml left on the coupon after 24 hrs. 2ml is the standing glass sealing, with Amsoils HP 10w40, redlines HP 20w50 and syntec 10w40 hitting that mark.

Final data for the Amsoil tests.

I think we final found an aria that the Amsoil is very good in, which is friction. The racing is in the top 3 performers hot and the other two did very well as well. All around there ability to reduce friction (which is the main point of oil) is very good.

The numbers are as fallows (hot/room/cold, listed in N to pull the sled).

Racing: .8/1.25/1.8
HP: 1/1.25/2
XS: 1.25/1.5/1.75

And the final viscosity times, for the hot state.

Racing: 30sec
HP: 24sec
XS: 51sec


As for my final thoughts and feelings on the 3 Amsoil products tested. I like the racing oil, but only for a car driven exclusively in warm weather and I wish it came in a 10w40 rated oil as 20w50 is often thicker and more than you need (robs some Hp and Econ). I would happily run the racing in my 1J car in the warm months without a worry in the world about how it performs. I liked the high performance sample as well, but I would not pay the extra money over my Castrol for it, there a vary comparable product. The extended service was probably my favorite of the 3 for all around use, though it was not the best in many categories it’s overall performance was very good and if it where locally available I would seriously consider running it in my daily driver. Of all my thoughts that come to mine on the Amsoil products tested here I would haft to say the things that stand out in my mined are that they perform predictably, are consistent and well balanced oils. The bad end was there performance in the tests was there resistance to water contamination and there heat capacities, neither of which would concern me in a water cooled engine that was properly sealed.

I am hoping to do some sort of endurance test with amsoil in my Supra, as there biggest claim is how long you can run them in your car without changing them and without loss of protection.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Ok, that transfers most of the good stuff from that thread and brings it current.  Here is the exl file of the data.

[Fonz87]

damn!! how long did that all take to post !!  wow!

[GrandLordKhorne]

It was originally a Supraforums thread I did, the research/testing took me about 8-10 months so far and I still get people offering to send me samples for testing.  When I have samples available I try to add to the existing info, but it’s time consuming so it’s not all that common.  There is still talk of an oil endurance test for the Amsoil.

[Darkchylde]

Werd That Is A-w-e-s-o-m-e.