Dlux4life's 3SGTE Swap into 5th gen Celica

[Dr Tweak]

If you don't know the story, here it is: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12348

This thread is the happy ending


Picking the Celica up (using some ingenuity to get it onto the car dolly)













You guys should have seen this place, it was downright scary. The "shop" that he was working out of was a garage bay so small that with one car in there you could *just* walk around the sides and front of it (not even the back of the car), and a milkcrate full of hand and air tools on the floor.

He stuck the engine into the car with two mounts, didn't cover the intake, turbo, or oil filter flange, the lug nuts weren't tightened down, it just went on and on. Now I'm worried about what I'm going to find when I get to work on it... LOL

But the good news is, it's safe and sound at my shop now. Getting it off the dolly was even easier than loading it, and loading it went EXTREMELY well. I couldn't believe we pulled it off so easy!

[Dr Tweak]

Today I pulled the car into the shop and got to work on it. First I pulled everything out of the car and organized everything. I seem to me missing some things:

Clutch master cylinder
Axles
Speedo cable
A/C compressor

I cleaned some things up, and then got to work on the auto/manual conversion. I pulled the old brake pedal out and installed the new one. Then I drilled all the holes for the clutch pedal and master cylinder, and installed the pedal. Now I just need to bolt in the master cylinder.

Pics! (I used my old camera and after these pics, I've decided to retire it.)







I found some scary things though. For one, the compressor side of the turbo was full (yes, I said full) of water. Also, the wiring harness was extended in several places using smaller-guage speaker wire... with very very poorly "soldered" connections.

I'll be back at it on Wednesday.

[Dr Tweak]

Okay, so on my days off this week I did the wiring, good thing I redid it because it was really bad. Check these pics out:

"Soldered" connections:




This is speaker wire. Yes, I just said speaker wire. For the main power wire going to the injectors and ignition, among other wires.





And a pic of the car:



I'm uploading the other pics now, stand by...

Besides the hack job of wiring, it seems like whoever had it installed (assuming this thing actually worked at one time) had drilled a new hole for it closer to the middle of the car, because all the wrong wires were extended. I fixed the ones that were extended and I extended the ones that actually needed to be. The only think left is wiring up the fuel pump resistor relay, and the starter relay. I know a lot of people just skip them, but we don't mess around, around here.

[laz]

Ah I love it doc! I need to get me an ol' schooler and bring it up to you to do some crazy shiat!  Maybe a RHD All-Track Turbo Celica.

That be sweet!  


X

[Dr Tweak]

Now you're talking!

[Darkchylde]

DAMN SPEAKER WIRE?!!!!!


That guy is lucky the doode didn't finish his car. He'd be back in the shop a couple days later.

Your a savior DOC. He didn't know people up there knew about Toyota's?? Please People in D.C.  Don't know about Toyotas!


Viva La Tweak!!!

[Dr Tweak]

Well, it just gets better and better. The guy dropped the engine in and bolted it up with two mounts before I picked it up, right?

Yeah, right. The bolts that were in the two mounts, not only were not tightened all the way, but were the wrong size and thread. They didn't even start to tighten up, they were just stuck in there acting as "pins". Looking back, I wish I had checked them first... it would have been REAL interested to come up to a stop sign and see a 3SGTE going sliding by me....

So today I finished up wiring the fuel pump relay and the starter relay. Then I went around and installed CORRECT bolts and torqued them all down. Then I installed the middle engine support peice (after searching through boxes to find the bushings and bolts). And then realized, that I seem to be missing the crossmember. Great!

LOL

Here's the car jacked up to give me some room underneath:

[laz]

Wow doc, that is crazy! So you still have old matrix doors there?

X

[Dr Tweak]

Wow doc, that is crazy! So you still have old matrix doors there?

X

Haha yeap those were left over from the Mantis swap. I just sold them a couple weeks ago and they're waiting to be picked up.

-Doc

[Dr Tweak]

Well, I worked on the car today and was planning on starting it up, but we ran into a little snag. I was tracing out the Knock sensor wire and discovered that the harness wasn't a '92, like Keith thought. So, I figured that I'd better check out the ECU to see what year it was... and guess what? Not only is it NOT a '92, it's not even a 2nd gen!!!
 
The ECU is from an ST205 3rd gen 3SGTE!

[laz]

Whoopsie! Now what Doc? This is like a bad horror movie!

X

[Dr Tweak]

Two options:
 
1. We take advantage of the situation and upgrade to using the 3rd Gen ECU (which is a nice upgrade because then you can delete the crappy AFM), but that will require spending another $350 or so for extra sensors and labor of rewiring some things, or
 
2. We sell this ECU and pick up the correct one, and use that.
 
-Doc

[onehotpathy]

Hey doc, Where you from ? Do you do work for private parties ? I need to get some work done to my 240..

[laz]

Doc is up in Newport, Vermont. He works on anything thrown at him I believe! He is an all around nice guy that just likes to get all greased up for a good motor swap!

X

[Dr Tweak]

LOL, Laz about summed it up!

[laz]

Doc, which one would you say has been your hardest swap to date?

I still guess The Hellish Mantis, but I may be wrong.

X

[aaron7]

Looking good Doc! The more swaps I see you do, the more I feel good that I chose you to do the swap! I've heard many horror stories, but you sure make it as close to looking and functioning like factory as you can! I feel confident that when I take my MR2 home (long as the engine internals are good lol) it will last as long as if I was taking it home from the new car dealer!

[Dr Tweak]

Laz,

Yeah the first one was most difficult for me because it was the first one... after that, they've just gotten easier every time. Ruel's 3SGTE was pretty complicated, just because it was a time-consuming swap, needed custom mounts, intercooler and piping, manual conversion, and the ECU fiasco that we ran into (similar to this one, actually).

Thanks for the props Aaron

[Blitz2]

the celica is lookin' good, i saw it in person... i just want to her 'er run now

if $$ permits hopefully i can get my mk1 MR2 up there soon. i am in need of mooorrrrrre boost

[magicweed]

Dito on seein it.  Bein a speed freak its good to know that there are people around that can help you out of a tight spot.  Hopefully I can satisfy my need for boost too Shelby.  Soon.

[Dr Tweak]

Well I just got back from celebrating Niki and I's three year anniversary, so today I was back out in the shop.

Today's list was to get the engine primed and everything hooked up to try a test start. I pulled all the plugs and hooked up the battery, and got the engine turning over. That's when I noticed that the oil pressure light was off, which was odd... so, I started checking that out. First thing I found was that the stock sender was damaged, so I got a new one and installed that. Still nothing! So then I traced the power out and finally, after pulling the guage cluster, found that the bulb was missing. Replaced it and it was good to go.

Started cranking it again (plugs removed so that there's no pressure on the bearings), but it just wouldn't pick the oil up. Now, this engine was fully rebuilt well over a year ago, so I realized that probably the oil pump was never primed, and if it was, it was dry now. So I went down and picked up an oil transfer pump, stuck one end down into the oil pan (through the turbo drain), and hooked the other end up to an NPT fitting attached to a T with a mechanical oil pressure guage on it. Once I got that going, I was able to pump oil through the engine and build as much as 10 psi just with the hand pump. Then I removed it, cranked the engine over, and it went right up to 60 psi! Voila!

Then I finished building the intake, which involved drilling and tapping two holes and then installing two NPT fittings for the 13mm air lines going to the PCV and IAC. Got that all taken care of, and then made the plug wires (I couln't get 3SGTE wires locally so I made some out of some Camry wires). Once I got all that done, the day was over, but I put it together for a quick test-start. I wasn't able to start it, it cranks over fine and I have power at the coil and ignitor, but nothing. So I'll trace the problem out on Saturday and hopefully this thing will finally roar to life!

-Doc

[laz]

So does this mean this swap is almost done for you? Or do you still have lots to do?

3 year anniversary! Wow how time flies, it just seemed like last year around this time you were celebrating your 2...eeer...never mind!

Congrats doc! And post some pics if you can!

X

[Dr Tweak]

Okay, so, here's an update.

Basically, yesterday I put everything together and I wasn't able to get it started due to no spark. After tracing it out and writing a thread on Celicatech, http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13806, I figured out that the coil was bad, and the coil and ignitor weren't grounded well enough. After fixing that, the engine fired right up (early this morning). I went to bed and then came out to the shop at around 3 this afternoon, to start it up and do the first phase of engine break-in.

The first problem I had was that the engine would start and run for a second and then die. For some reason, the fuel pump isn't staying on after the engine starts. I jumped it at the diagnostic connector and will deal with it later. After fixing a vacuum leak the engine started running beautifully! But then...

While Niki was in the car holding the engine at a stead 2000 rpm and watching the temp, I kept an eye on the oil pressure and any leaks. After the engine ran for a few minutes, I noticed a puddle forming on the ground under the front of the engine. It was pretty minor so I left it for the time being, but then, we started getting a major leak from the rear of the engine. I slid under the car and took a look, and oil was spraying all over the back of the flywheel and dripping down.

It soon became apparent to me that the rear main seal was leaking badly, along with a seal at the front of the engine, possibly the crank seal. After thinking over my options, I realized that the only way to get it fixed was to remove the engine.

First, I drained the oil and got another nasty suprise. The oil was very milky, and when I put Speedi-dri on it, it turned green... seems like the coolant was getting into the oil. Seems to me that perhaps the head gasket wasn't installed correctly? Is there any other way for the coolant to get into the oil?

So, I busted my butt and pulled (rather, dropped) the engine in just over an hour, pulled the tranny, put it on the stand, pulled the front of the engine apart, along with the rear. First thing I noticed was that the timing belt was loose, the cam sprockets had actually jumped a tooth, the dots did not line up! I was able to just pull the belt off by hand without taking the tensioner off. Thankfully it was just one tooth each so the engine should be okay. Seems like the tensioner wasn't installed correctly....

Then I put my air ratchet on the oil pump and cranked it, got the pressure up to 50 psi, and sure enough, oil was spitting right out the bottom of the rear main seal. It's brand new, I don't know why it's doing that. Also appears that the front main seal is allowing oil by.

So, my plan is to replace the front and rear main seals, the oil pump gasket, and unless I come up with another reason for coolant in the oil, the head gasket.

I got the whole front, rear, and bottom of the engine pulled apart, along with the intake manifold removed. Monday is when I'm back in the shop, I'll pull the exhaust manifold and the head in preparation for the parts.

The good news is, the engine DID start and run, and it sounded good at the time!

-Doc

[Dr Tweak]

So today I finished removing everything so that it's ready to go once I get the parts in. Here's what the engine looked like at the end of the day yesterday:
 

 

 
Keith, I remember you asked about the two air lines going to the intake. Here's how I did it:
 

 
Check out the flaking on this exhaust valve, you think it might be a problem?
 

 
The pile of parts...
 

 
The block all cleaned up:
 

 

 
And the cylinder head. I did have to remove the intake cam to access one of the bolts, just because the tool I was using was a little too fat to get a good angle on the bolt head with the cam in the way.
 

 

 
Next week I'll have some shots of it going back together
 
-Doc

[BoostinMR2]

oh man. thats ridiculous. when shelby told me it started and all was well yesterday morning, i was relieved [knowing what keith had gone through]... but apparently.. haha... all was NOT well! Good luck! It's just too bad he didnt find and have you do everything right from the beginning.. would have saved himself so much money, and so much aggrivation!

[Dr Tweak]

Well, I was checking out the housing for the rear main seal, and I think I found out why it was leaking so bad. I popped the seal out, and look what I found:



That right there is why you do NOT use a screwdriver to pry a seal out. The scratches are serious enough to cause a pretty good leak. Any ideas on fixing it? I was thinking about scuffing the area up a little and applying a tiny bit of JB weld and smooth it out. Thoughts?

[BoostinMR2]

id say thats probably your best bet, but im no metal worker. How much is that peice alone from the dealer? id probably do what you said first to save money.. i mean, it wouldnt take that much time to try anyway...

[Dr Tweak]

Yeap I'm gonna try that, if not, I know a couple people who have one.

-Doc

[BoostinMR2]

im pretty sure i was the one that took that seal out, and replaced it with the new one. but i know i didnt use a screwdriver on the outside like that [duh].. i would have put the screwdriver on the inside of the seal, and rubber malleted on it a few times to pop it out. then i put the new seal on, put the old seal on top of it, and rubber malleted the old seal, to seat the new one. This is how i did it when i replaced my rear main.. and it worked beautifully. apparently, i missed the scratch marks, or maybe didnt think anything of them if i did see them.

Mind you, this was last year some time. Perhaps keith tried prying out the seal before i showed him how to really do it?

oh well.. regardless, good luck!

[Dr Tweak]

It could have been missed I'm sure, if you weren't looking for it. In fact, I would have probably overlooked it as well except for the fact that I was LOOKING for a problem in that exact area. No worries

-Doc

[BoostinMR2]

haha, for a minute there i was like :brick: . but then i realized that i def didnt do that, but probably just overlooked it like you said. let us know how that jb weld thing works.. i'm sure some of us might be able to use that method in the future, if it works.

[Blitz2]

i'd say the absolute best bet to repair that would be to bring it to a fabrication shop that specializes in welding (like fabtech in colchester... they do mostly duct work but are amazing welders) and have them fill it in w/ filler, then machine it out to the right specs.
 
  ~Shelby

[BoostinMR2]

i'd say the absolute best bet to repair that would be to bring it to a fabrication shop that specializes in welding (like fabtech in colchester... they do mostly duct work but are amazing welders) and have them fill it in w/ filler, then machine it out to the right specs.
 
  ~Shelby

$$$CHA-CHING!$$$

[Dr Tweak]

I can get a new one for cheaper than that will cost

-Doc

[Blitz2]

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?  i like to tinker... is that so bad?  

[dlux4life]

Hey guys, finally found time to get on the site. Tweak, i love the progress that has been made so far, it sucks that things have to be back tracked.
 
I dont know why the rear main seal was messed up like that becuase it was brand new going on there. Brad was there when we put it on, i remember and we used the rubber mallet for it, we didnt use the screw driver for it at all, so i have no clue how those marks got on there unless my old mechanic used a screw driver to put it on. Anyways, glad to see that this is still moving forward!
 
Tweak, drop me an email this weekend if u can, just so i know how things are going. Use my home adress mbproduce2k@yahoo.com becuase i cant get to my work adress untill mon.
 
Keith

[Dr Tweak]

Hey bud, I'm glad you finally dropped by!

Today I had to work early, but I was anxious to install the engine so I got up early and got some work done. It was so nice today, felt like 50 degrees, I was out there in a tee shirt. Anyway, I got the engine installed and bolted up, everything hooked up, belts installed, etc. Needs less than an hour's work to get it running again and hopefully it will be all set. Then I just need to get the clutch line bled and do a road test, and I'm scheduling the exhaust to be done on Wednesday if I can get it in.

On a side note, I walked in the house and there was this strange chick in there walking around. I was like, "Who the heck are you???" She's like, "I'm your wife, stupid." I guess I forgot I had a wife... she was pretty hot though so I was cool with it.




-Doc

[dlux4life]

Tweak-

You are the man!! I wsa busy all morning and i didnt get a chance to get the check into the mail dude. I will have it for you on Monday, and then another one on friday for you. I appreicate all you hard work man!

[Darkchylde]

Damn, I never woulda owned the engine or just spent and replaced the whole thing. Remember what I told you doc, HARD CORE!

[aaron7]

Yikes! Hope the engine didn't come from the same people as I got mine... I've heard some horror stories about ebay JDM motors... now I'm scared!

Swap looks like it's coming along great though, I can't wait to see it going! If you can, post videos!!

[dlux4life]

Hey, just livining up the post a little bit...seeing how things are going. Tweak, just checking to see if you got the last email i sent you?..I feel really bad man. Get back to me with an update when ever you get a chance man.

[Dr Tweak]

Hey bud, yeah I got your email. I sent my buddy "Big Tony" to go see you and "take care of business"...

buahahaha j/k bro, just take care of it as soon as you can. I'll have an update and pics for everyone tomorrow. I'm shooting for 100% completion by the end of the week.

-Doc

[BoostinMR2]

I'll have an update and pics for everyone tomorrow. I'm shooting for 100% completion by the end of the week.

-Doc

and 6 days later..... update? pics? completed? come on doc!

[Dr Tweak]

Yeah sorry for no updates, been a little busy.

Okay well to summarize the another thread I started on Celicatech that specifically dealt with the compression problem, the engine would run, then I fixed a few minor things and got it going, with extremely bad compression on the number 1 and especially number 4 cylinder. Today, I got out into the shop and removed the engine for the third and hopefully final time, and tore the engine down. The whole process took me about 4 hours.

The engine stripped down:



Head removed:



Closeup of the cylinder walls. This is with about 40 minutes of run-time, and there is NO crosshatch pattern visible at all.



About to remove the crankshaft:



The bare block:



Piston number 1, significant scuffing on one face:



Piston number 4, pitting around the edge of the piston above the first ring:



Piston number 4, more scuffing:



All the parts...





In addition to the obvious problems in the pics above, the cylinders were supposedly overbored 20 over, however, the pistons are not stamped as oversized. (I don't have the proper tools to actually measure them, but we'll find out soon.) The part number on the piston is 351941, however I cannot find that number listed on the Arias website. (They are Arias pistons). I'm going to call them tomorrow and see what I can find out.

Tomorrow I'll drop all of this off at the machine shop and they will inspect it and let me know what they find. I'll have news later this week hopefully.

*edit* Since the above post I called the machine shop today and they haven't gotten to the engine yet, but I expect to hear back from them early this coming week.

-Doc

[Dr Tweak]

[Dr Tweak]

[Dr Tweak]

The lack of a camera prevented me from getting you all some pics of the finished, installed product, but the swap was completed and returned to a happy customer on 4-24-06.

-Doc